I’m Thinking About Discipline…and Saving My Children’s Souls from Hell
June 21st, 2010
“Do not hold back discipline from the child,
Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
You shall strike him with the rod
And rescue his soul from hell.” Proverbs 23:13-14
“He who withholds his rod hates his son,
But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.” Proverbs 13:24
“The rod and reproof give wisdom,
But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.” Proverbs 29:15
“Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.” Ephesians 6:1-4
“And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.” Romans 1:28-32
I guess disciplining our children is a pretty big deal.
So I’m thinking about it today…
and I’m asking God to help me be a faithful mother when it comes to disciplining my children.
Because I love my children and I want to save their souls from hell.
I want to teach them to obey and honor mommy and daddy, who they see, so they will one day obey and honor their Father who they do not see.
And I want them to understand the gospel. I want to them to understand how horrible sin is and the painful consequences that follow sin.
And the painful consequences that Jesus had to endure on behalf of our sin.
And then how, after the pain, came the beauty.
And the grace.
And the freedom.
I want my children’s hearts.
I will trust God’s Word for how to get them.
This is something I think about a lot. Thanks for posting this :)
Sarah, this is a great post – I admire your boldness – it is what we all as parents need to be reminded of! I am inspired daily by your blog and am so thankful for your encouraging words and firm stand on God’s word. May He continue to bless you and your family! ~ Megan (Psalm 19:14)
What a post title that is. It certainly got my attention. But it’s true. God takes sin seriously and parents are to train and teach and yes …discipline their children. It’s that serious.
And yet how thankful I am for the patience, love and mercy too. :)
Blessings,
Debbie
AMEN.
Just wrote a post about Biblical Discipline last week. I love how you did it, I’m gonna add a link to this post into my post!!! ;-)
Praying the same prayer to be faithful in discipline today…even as it is tested by my 4yo right before I read this! Discipline is so wearing but thank you for this reminder that it is completely worth it in the end.
My husband and I were talking about this, the other day. Thank you, for posting it.
Thank you for this post! : ) I have a little booklet that I re-read often with these verses in it. As moms with gooey lovey feelings, I know we do not want to even think about discipline, but these “little” misbehaviors will only multiply and grow into bigger versions of the same. My husband encourages me with the thought that, “A little spanking now saves a lot of heartache later.” : )
Great post! We purchased a DVD set about Raising Godly Children (by the Bradricks) from Vision Forum and are in the process of watching it… there’s lots of good info regarding discipline :o) There’s a preview for the DVD set on the Vision Forum site here: http://www.visionforum.com/search/productdetail.aspx?search=raising+godly+children&productid=86552 .
Thanks for posting about the hard things, Sarah Mae!
:) great verses; most of which I’d never heard. Thanks. I’ve been thinking about disciplining with love lately (I’d like to get a plaque or sign that says “discipline with love”). It’s hard to do, especially when one kid shoves the other. but I’m trying.
There are a series of books by The National Center For Biblical Parenting that really address these issues.
1. Parenting is Heart-work
2. Good and Angry
3. Say Goodbye to Whining, Complaining, and Bad Attitudes, in You and Your Kids
And the website link is: http://www.biblicalparenting.org/default.asp
We’ve attended a seminar at our church with the NCFBP leading the workshop- it was VERY insightful! :)
I just wrote about this on Friday — great timing. http://mom-nom.com/2010/06/18/spanking/
Amen! Preach it sister! God’s Word can be trusted to produce fruit! Not our actions alone but our actions built on the Truth of the Word of God! Amen!
Thank you for this post. Someone in our extended family is having some extreme issues with an older child. As parents they have been very leniant and not applied discipline when it was most needed. Scripture has a way of tossing any excuses out the window for not following God’s word. I believe this family would be dramatically changed if they were to implement the necessary discipline and if it had been instilled at an early age. Their child is now in his 30’s and quite the trouble maker, sponging off of his parents and refusing to make something of his life.
Beautiful post. Totally agree! :-)
Unfortunately it’s too easy for parents to focus on the Law and punishing their children for transgressing it and neglect to share the Gospel with their little fellow sinners. God forbid I inadvertantly teach my children that God is a harsh master who will punish them for their childish mistakes instead of a loving Shepherd who died for their sins so they wouldn’t have to.
I forgot the most important point…we, as parents, are completely incapable of saving our children from he’ll. Do NOT set yourself for heart-wrenching failure. Only Christ can do that. All we can do is teach our children of His saving love for us.
I agree with Thursday’s child. It is God who saves us and our children from Hell. We share the Gospel and amazing story with them and discipline with love and forgiveness. Our daily lives are an offering and should be an example to our children and when we fail God picks us and them right back up again through his wonderful saving Grace.
Collette xx
Collette and Thursday’s Child – yes, God calls and God saves, but we have His Word to follow in the meantime…in the hoping…in the persevering…
and His Word says, “…You shall strike him with the rod
And rescue his soul from hell.” Proverbs 23:13-14
So while it is true, I cannot save my child, I can be an instrument of help by teaching them self-control and self-discipline. How immensely it will help their life journey, and perhaps even, with the graciousness of God, save their souls.
Working on trianing as well in addition to obediance with a joyful heart. Our children will obey, but the joyful heart is not as eager to come along. Always growing in God. Sinerely, Mommy of two little blessings & so much more!
I remember when our children were little…(they are 32 and 35 now) I would have the wooden spoon on the counter and I would say ‘go get it’ and they would walk ever so slowly.
My daughter’s personality was the kind that any scolding she was in tears completely repentent before she got ’spanked’ which was very rarely if ever I honestly don’t remember spanking her. My son was strong willed, defiant, good, smart and gifted. HE would say ‘THAT DIDN’T HURT’ with big tears in his eyes… I didn’t like to discipline but KNEW I had no choice, they are both strong adults now. HE is a reserve police officer and runs a district attorneys office for the county, and a respected leader with two sons of his own ( I did tell I prayed for pay back)and she is a wonderful mom of three daughters… it does HELP in their growing up and respecting laws and the LORD and their parents.
I doubt if I could ever spank anyone now that I am older, but if I had too…I would, I am not even sure if I believe in it anymore BUT IF it meant they would obey and be respectful and be safe in a gentle way then it is necessary. All six of my grand babies will learn to listen and obey.
Keep on speaking the truth in love, Sarah Mae! It doesn’t matter whether people believe the truth–it’s still truth! Consistent, loving discipline (applying the wooden spoon to bare skin, or a ruler works) along with teaching from God’s Word, modeling Godly behavior and attitudes and loving mercy and grace are all necessary components of raising Godly children to adulthood. Persevere, all you moms! It’s worth it! And it’s Biblical.
Blessings,
Wendy
Fotunately I’ve found spoons and rulers unnecessary and even detrimental to loving, consistent discipline. While my children make mistakes (like their parents), forgiveness and sound teaching work so much more effectively.
Please forgive my typos. Due to laptop issues and fat fingers, typing on an iPod makes for interesting spelling. LOL
We spank. A really good book on raising godly kids and how spanking plays a key role in training vs. punishment is To Train Up a Child by Michael Pearl.
http://www.nogreaterjoy.org
Hi Tracy – I think that book has some great insights, although I definitely disagree with some of their methods (hitting a child with the same toy they are hitting you with). I also don’t like he constantly compares children to horses in training – blech. However, I learned some wonderful techniques that have worked well for our family. For anyone who reads the book, pick out the bones and take the good! :)
It is sad that in today’s culture parents who “spank” are deemed as unloving or harsh. And it is even more sad that there are parents who do spank out of rage, who spank to punish and make their kids feel worthless. (I know what that is like, unfortunately)
I swore I’d never spank my own children because of the way I was punished for the strangest things–things that didn’t even deserve a spanking. But when I became an adult and closely examined the Word of God, I realized that “spanking” was meant to be used in a loving manner for instruction and correction.
And in our family it is reserved for serious offenses, and my children are completely aware of these. Spanking isn’t used for every little mistake–there is MUCH grace in our home. We have other methods of discipline, too–sometimes privileges are taken away, or extra chores are assigned, or sometimes just a simple warning is given. Sometimes I can tell my kids are acting up b/c they just need some special attention. Good parenting equals much discernment and much patience!!
Anyway, there in NO way I could possible explain all my thoughts here, but I did want to say, I do agree Sarah Mae!
I have to add…I don’t want to sound like a ‘bad’ mom for using a spoon. I was young and didn’t know alot of resources at the time there was James Dobson who taught ’strong willed child’ issues and I didn’t know the word enough to know what else to do. We did take parenting classes. Like I say as I am in my mid 50’s now I would NOT use a spoon on a child these days. I would start out with a soft discipline and pattern where they KNOW the tone of my voice means ’stop it’. Loving discipline.
I don’t believe in violence towards a child is ever effective but if a child is doing something really wrong such as ‘running through a parking lot’ where they could be hurt, then YES pop their behinds to get their attention.
God disciplines us… out of His LOVE through His love for us. Consequences happen if we don’t listen so we must teach that to the children.
My grandson often says, “grandma I had to have a time out” so when his mommy wanted time alone to go shopping…I said “mommy is having a time out” he said to me…”Oh what did she do wrong?”
I had to laugh.
LOVE the little ones :o)
Have any of you ever heard of Love and Logic??? It is phenomenal! It teaches children how to problem solve and learn that there are both good and bad consequences for their actions. If they make a wise choice, life will go well for them. If they make a bad choice, then sadly, there will be a negative consequence. The parent is no longer the “bad guy” but the child is forced to look at himself/herself, and realize that when they are being naughty, they are being the “bad guy”.
Also, there is much to be said about children’s temperaments. Someone earlier touched on the differences between her children. Temperament is, by far, what drives a child (or adult) to react and respond a certain way. Some are more expressive in their anger. Others will withdraw or acquiesce. The ones that are not blatantly reacting and “rebelling” are not necessarily “better” or more “well-behaved” children. What ends up happening is these little ones can become very passive aggressive. Not a great character trait.
I’m not going to say spanking is wrong or not. I will say this, since my husband and I starting using Love and Logic (a year-and-a-half ago) we have not had to spank our EXTREMELY STRONG WILLED daughter. What a miracle…believe me.
As for saving your children from hell. Well, you can’t scare the poor things into heaven. God gives us free will and free choice. Again…Love and Logic is the BEST I’ve seen that models this kind of authority.
Here is the link to their website: http://www.loveandlogic.com
I am currently teaching a course on Different Children/Different Needs and the book we are using is “Different Children, Different Needs” by Charles F. Boyd. Excellent book…excellent resource for not just understanding who we are as parents (our temperaments that feed into our parenting styles), but also who are children are at the core. Very powerful stuff.
I could really go on about this…forever. I love this stuff. Each day I am reminded how much I desperately need God and his guidance. All the books, curriculum, and resources pale in comparison to the guidance that God gives through the still small voice of his Holy Spirit. I don’t do it perfectly…and I doubt anyone does. However, God’s grace allows us to pick ourselves back up when we’ve completely messed up, and keep on going. When our children see us modeling our need for God, and how beautiful it is to see God’s grace at work in us, the desire for God will be birthed inside of them. I truly believe that.
Amy, thank you so much, I’m going to check out that site! :)
I don’t even remember how I got to this site Sarah Mae, but I am glad I dropped in on you….but I am enjoying it so much I will return sometime, and send the link to my girls.
When I was “born-again” 28 years ago, my marriage was on the “rocks”. We had two little girls. We met the “Rock”, Jesus Christ, who saved us and our marriage…I was a fairly harsh Mum, my husband was too soft, and our girls suffered because of it. When the Holy Spirit came into my heart, He softened it, and my whole motive and method of discipline changed. I still spanked my girls, but out of love (which is what I was trying to do before, but didn’t have the Love of God filling my heart). Oh, they still frustrated me, but I learned to deal with it differently. We went on to have another little girl, who has been totally different. You know, to put it in a “nutshell” I reckon the best thing the Lord showed me was this. We looked after a friend’s son for a year, and I gave him and my girls a spanking one day (they were all guilty anyway..LOL) because I thought “I should treat him the same way I treat my girls”. Ah, the Lord spoke so lovingly into my heart and said “No, you should treat your girls the same way you would treat him…your guest”. Whoa! I still feel the effects of that “word” to me. He wasn’t saying to not spank them, but that I needed to look at how I would normally treat a child guest, and show the same respect to my own children. It took a while, but I got there, and found the balance in so many other parts of my life because of it.
Love your blog….I remember how I got here now….it was the coffee! Bless you and your readers.
I’d use caution when holding up Pearl and his writing as an ideal way of raising kids. Barbara at Mommy Life has written some things that put it into better perspective.
http://mommylife.net/archives/2010/03/growing_outrage.html
http://mommylife.net/archives/mike_and_debi_p/
Genevieve´s last blog ..The Little-Known Favorites of a True Gardener- Books From an Estate Sale
Parenting with love and logic is an awesome way of raising your ‘children.’ Mom’s read up and study…just as you would study for a drivers exam or a ‘college course’ your children are MORE important, sacred and valuable… read up… and study what the course of discipline should be for your littel ones. I have to say my son and his wife have two ‘busy’ boys… and they parent with love and logic speaking quiet and gentle words to them. The boys respond in a wonderful way not always GLAD to obey but they DO obey. Love and Logic is awesome.
from a grandma of six in Oregon
Genevieve is right. There are a lot of doctrinal errors in the Pearls’ teachings. There is a whole series about them (the doctrinal errors) at http://scitascienda.com/bored-yet-top-30-articles/parenting-in-the-name-of-god-index/